I want a respectful debate!!!
So very much inspired by a fellow buddies blog (Rae)…
Her blog spoke to the “Morality” of Obesity…
Not being a religious minded person…I myself dont consider it moral or imoral…However, when reading her blog I could certainly see how certain groups would see that…I know many religions dont beleive in drinking, smoking, and tatoos, because of the body being a temple…
So I can certainly see how obesity would fit in those categories…
It was a great blog and really got my mind going back to a subject that I am EXTREEMLY passionate about and have bloged about…
CHILDHOOD OBESITY…
I was at work just last week talking about a special I had seen on TLC…It was about obese kids and different things they were doing…I can not remember the name of the program, but my friend and I were watching it in disbelief…
This kids were not merely chunky…They were morbidly obese…
They young girl they were highlighting was trying to get liposuction. Her mother supported this…And I beleive she was 15 or 16…I beleive the girl was at or around 300 pounds…
This sparked many debates teh next day at work…
As a parent…If your child is MORBIDLY obese, do you, in fact, have to take the responsibility for that??
Could that be considered child abuse?? If so, why? If not, WHY NOT??
And the second question to debate, SURGERY…Weight loss surgery of any kind…HOW YOUNG IS TOO YOUNG…
I would really like to hear you all weigh in on this. For we are the experts, no?
Here is where I stood during the work debate…
I am not a parent, and I think its important to state that…My answers might be different if I were…BUT, I do think, up to a certain point that a parent is completely and utterly repsonible for what their child consumes…After a certain age, nope…Sixteen, I was drving, buying my own junk…
But up to that point, seriously, I ate what my mom fixed, or I didnt eat. Period…
I have 14 nieces and nephews, and I know that many in my family circle allow thekids to dictate what they will eat…I cant fathom that at all!!!
Is it considered child abuse? I think in some cases, it could be…You are essentially allowing your child to indulge and welcoming a lifetime of hurt, insults, physical and mental problems…You are assisting them to arrive to an early grave…
Weight loss surgery? I think its ridiculous for ANY person under the age of 18 to use this…ANY kind of cosmetic surgery. You are not even done growing and developing…And I do personally feel its a band aid for a bigger, deeper rooted problem…
So those are my views…What are yours??? I would truly like to know…
So lets hear it!!!
Dawn,
I have to be honest I truely think that if your child is that heavy not chuncky because hormones and slow growth can cause chunkiness but if the child is really heavy it is child abuse. A child is just that a child it can’t understand nutrition labels or cook the food. It is the parents responsibility to educate themselves and insure their child is emotionally okay. I am overweight and my kids are not because they know to stop when they are full and we eat healthy food. As for the surgery part in my eyes that is just laziness. It will not fix the problem long term just for the moment the girl will continue to eat like she does and it will return very quickly. I think the doctor should be involved, get a nutritionist and walk together. Chances are the mom is fat also. I think education is the key not a quick fix thing. But yes I think it is neglect when a parent sees a child gaining weight to that degree and does nothing about it. I mean after all do you think a 5 year old wants to have troubles walking, breathing, playing with friends. People are so blind.
I know in my case, I feel that it was either EXTREME INGNORANCE (hard for me to fathom, but I’ll give out the benefit of the doubt) or sheer child abuse. My step father put ENORMOUS amounts of food on my plate… I’m talking e.g. if it was spaghetti, a dinner plate covered edge to edge and 2 to 3 inches high in the center. I had to remain at the table until I cleaned my plate. When I was younger, say 4-8, I just couldn’t do it, I would fall asleep at the table and he would carry me into my bed where I would wake up each morning. As I got older, say 9-11 I was getting good at it, and realized that the key was speed… If I shoveled in mouthfuls, barely chewed, and swallowed, repeat, as fast as I could… I’d be able to go outside and play with the neighborhood kids, which was much preferable to his company.
When my mother and he divorced, I became anorexic… in hindsight, a total control issue… I didn’t have to eat if I didn’t want to and damn it after all those years I DIDN’T WANT TO! After I got pregnant, I no longer went without food, but I still have food and control issues that I fight with daily.
There you have it, IMHO.
Wow. Thank you both…I truly love a good debate…And I am very interested to see if we all differ or think along the same lines because we are all dealing now with our own weight issues…
I think it is completely up to the parents in every way to care for children. I have 4 of my own and 3 steps. My two teen boys are over weight and I know that I contribute to that with my poor eating habits and lack of active lifestyle. Children follow examples. They will do what you do. As I am learning and caring for myself, that includes my family. I’m not forcing “diets” on my children, but I do enforce eating dinner at the table, chewing slowly, and healthy snacks. Slowly, we are learning as a family. I don’t want my 4 mos son to ever have memories of me overweight. I want him to learn right from the beginning instead of having to relearn later like my other three are having to do.
In defense of parents, I think that schools deserve a little of the blame too. It greatly concerns me that they feed our children high calorie, low nutrition foods and don’t give kids the proper amount of time to eat. My children became scarfers when they hit the public school system because they have to if they are going to eat lunch. Lunch is 30 min now, and that isn’t the time they get to sit and eat. That includes getting through the lunch line and sat down. It is forcing bad habits on the kids that are very difficult to counter-act. My daughter is developing weight issues now because she has been forced into a scarfer. She has always been a perfect weight until this last year.
I don’t agree with weight loss surgery at any age. It doesn’t fix the problem. There are cases where it is necessary in order to save the person from dying. That is the ONLY time I think it is acceptable. Obesity is a side effect of other issues. It doesn’t solve anything to remove the weight without fixing the problem.
I agree with you all-parents are to take responsibility to ensure their children do not become obese. I help my daughter eat healthy and get in exercise so that she will already have these habits in place in adulthood, so she will not have to struggle as I do to lose weight in her 30s. I also do not like that the schools force them to eat so quickly; but as far as them making poor nutritional choices for lunch, that ones’ easy: I always pack Mikayla’s lunches. That is the only way to control what is going in her mouth while she’s at school. She loves fruit and veggies, so she gets plenty of those and then a good sandwich and a bottle of water. I always think if I’d had that instead of the sugary junk I ate for lunch as a kid, I would not be the weight I am today! But yes, I think parents need to open their eyes and realize it’s their job to help their kids control their weight, until, like you said Dawn, their children have reached an age when it’s time for them to make their own decisions. Hopefully by that time the parents have instilled so many healthy options that it’s second nature.
I also saw the show about the morbidly obese young girl getting lipo. What was really crazy was the scene they showed the day before her surgery of her having lunch, and she was stuffing herself with a huge, sloppy sub sandwich. Of course, she could argue that it was the day before surgery and she wanted to treat herself…but my guess is that she ate this way all the time. She apparently didn’t have any kind of medical problem that was causing the obesity, so it would seem that good nutrition wasn’t being practiced at home…and obviously her parents are of the “quick fix” mindset, allowing her to get lipo instead of getting her to a doctor or nutritionist.
My son had severe double pneumonia when he was 4 years old and had to have his lungs cleared surgically…of course he barely remembers it, but it was the WORST day of my entire life…so how a parent can elect to have their child have any sort of surgery when nutrition and exercise could fix the problem is completely beyond me. Debbie
humm… i would have to agree with everyone else on here and say that the parent is definately, at least partially and the if partially, the bigger part, responsible. i know that my mom didn’t let us have junk in the house- but even when i was in grade school my sister and i would go to the store on our own and buy iceing- and then eat the whole tub with a spoon!! yuk! could mom help that? i think not. BUT- even with that, i don’t think there is any way we could have ever gotten morbibly obese on that alone. and… i have to say that i also think kids that want to eat so much on their own might (probably) be dealing with emotional issues. again though, i think that that is part of a parent’s responsiblilty to help their children NOT develop issues. may happen anyway, but loving parents can help a lot.
as for the other question- surgery… well, i don’t think its necessarily a good idea. surgery to reduce weight loss isn’t a good idea- it doesn’t change your eating habits and it probably won’t help in the long run. probably. but… no cosmetic surgery for anyone under 18? not so sure i agree with that. if there was an accident, say a burn victim, surgery would be ok, right? why? their skin might function perfectly well, it just looks not so fabulous. people stare. other kids would make comments. what if its some other defect, but from birth? your nose is giagantiod or your boobs are already sagging at 16? that will probably cause a lot of emothional pain as well. i dunno. i have to say that in most cases, i think its not the best idea… but… i dunno. anyway, just a thougt.
Debbie…You are correct. I left out that part. She had HORRIBLE eating habits…
What I dont understand in that scenerio, the mom was FAIRLY healthy looking!!!! Truly, slightly overweight at best…
What made me really mad was that she was denied the surgery FROM HER DOCTOR due to low Iron…He told her to boost her iron and come back…
SHE DIDNT DO IT, but then whined and cried when he denied her the second time…
That is NOT a girl mature enough or commited enough for a HUGE surgery…
Hey…I also wanted to throw this out…I should of used it in my original blog…FAST FOOD…Ughhh…
I have a good friend. Okay. Several. Who are overweight themselves, fighting the battle we are. Yet, feed their kids fast food thee to four times per week.
When I said WHY DO YOU DO THAT? The answer was “DAWN, MY KIDS DONT HAVE A WEIGHT PROBLEM!”
Ummm. DUH…No, they dont NOW, but since BOTH parents are overweight, and you are teaching them that fast food is the norm, you are totally setting them up to fight the same battle you are…
Sorry…
Thats another thing that gets me going…
Without doubt it is the parents fault. I’m speaking as a parent here, too. We are the ones who need to raise our children properly, they aren’t born knowing what they should or should not be eating, or how much…things of that nature. Granted, young children are born with the innate ability to stop eating when full but we so often teach that out of them by allowing them to overindulge on goodies. Cakes, sodas, chips, donuts…things of that nature. We so often use junk foods as rewards for deeds well done even. It is up to US as parents to teach our children proper eating habits! To make excuses for ourselves is absurd.
To get surgery as a child is ludicrous and I think that any doctor that does it should lose his right to practice medicine. A child is still growing and I think it’s not only wrong morally but it is wrong physically to allow children to have cosmetic surgery of any kind. Teach that child to eat healthily and exercise daily! I think it’s wrong to jump to surgery to “fix” our mistakes to begin with, let alone for a child. Now, I’m not saying that weight loss surgery is wrong for everyone. I just firmly believe that it is GREATLY abused in this country. Putting a band aid fix on a child’s obesity isn’t fixing anything! That child has NOT learned the proper way to eat and exercise and is just going to go right back to obesity over time. And yes, for the most part, weight loss surgery IS a band aid fix. I’ve yet to see it heal anyone on it’s own; if someone keeps the weight off after surgery it is because that person learned to eat properly and exercises almost daily. Every single person I’ve ever known or read about having the surgery gains the weight back. Hmm…I need to do some research and see what the actual percentage who kept the weight off. Point is…the only real fix is re-learning our habits and behaviors into good ones.
Getting off my soap box now lol.
I agree that is it up to the parent to teach their children healthy eating habits. I have two children and grew up always struggling with my weight, I don’t want that for my children. It can leave some serious emotional scars. That being said it is also our society that fosters overweight children. They say a two year old will know who ronald mcdonald is but not mickey mouse… Speaking of Mickey Mouse I will offer an example. My daughter does not drink soda, I never gave it to her and the few times she tried it she did not like it. On a trip to Disney World a few year ago with her she got thirsty. I had to go to three places before I found a drink for her that wasn’t soda. Not even a juicebox available. This was unbelievable to me. This is Disney, what does that say about our country?
On the opposite spectrum I knew someone who was told that her 6 or 7 yr old son was getting slightly overweight and took action. She would control his intake, not allow him the same foods his siblings ate. And instead of taking him outside to do sports or play she forced him to walk on the treadmill in the basement for a minimun of 30 mins. Being overweight will leave scars and a twisted relationship with food, but so will that type of villianfication of food. We need a happy medium.
Hippiemom, you make a good point..There are definitely extreems to take in consideration…
That is very disturbing about Disney as well…Hmmm…I wonder what their reasoning is behind that??
My sister is a vegetarian. 20 years TOTAL vegan…She has three kids…She breast fed all of them and when they were able to eat, they ate what she ate…VEGGIES VEGGIES VEGGIES…
Once they got to a certain age, she did allow them to eat meat, for her doctor said that children do need it…
But I have witnessed her children actually begging her for veggies and ignoring candy…
Kids are sponges…Absorbing everything they see…
Dont get me wrong…There were veggies I hated as a kid, but there were also odd ones I loved. I LOVED SPINACH…It was my favorite…AND LIMA BEANS!!!! Weird, huh?
I think that parents have a certain degree of control when it comes to their children maintaining a healthy weight. A parent controls what food is brought into the house, what dinners they put on the table, what snacks are available to their kids on a daily basis. It’s up to the parents to set a fantastic example for thier kids by eating healthily and exercising regularly in order for their kids to learn what’s healthy from what is not. We are born with a certain amount of sense… i.e. most kids will stop eating when they are full (a habit most of us are trying to re-learn!), but other habits such as exercise and good healthy food choices, must be learned.
However, if for somereason your child becomes overweight due to illness, drugs (eg steroids) etc… the worst thing a parent can do is put their child on a diet and severly limit their food intake. That’s what my Mom did to me and I can accredit her with my bulimia. If a kkid is overweight, it’s more important for the parent to get in there, start making healthy food choices for the entire house, get the entire house involved in exercise of some sort, and help their child MAINTAIN the weight they have. With time, they will grow into that weight. If however a child is 15 years old and weighing 300lbs, then obviously the parents didnt step up to the mark in time, and then the child needs professional help from a doctor, dietician and a counsellor.
Just my 2 cents worth!
I think what we have to look at here is how did society play a role in this problem……………..statistics show that the weight of our children has increased significantly each decade………why is that?
If you think about the average size of people in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s you realize that the number of obese people back then was not the norm……….sure there were those exceptions but they were not the norm………….obesity is becoming the norm.
The 70’s, 80’s and 90’s see obesity numbers rising consistently with each decade……….why?………….I feel that economic issues played a key role………….the 70’s is when more mothers started working……….creating latch-key children……..children who went home after school to an empty house……….being free to do and eat what they pleased…..also with 2 parents working there is less time for
planning and preparing meals…..what’s the quick fix?…….grab some KFC or an already made pizza.
As each decade progressed, the number of families with 2 working parents increased also……….creating more latch-key children………also creating less quality family time. If memory serves me right it was near the late 90’s when people woke up and said, “Oh my God, look at our children”………but, many individuals did not want to take the blame for their 8 yr old weighing over 200lbs……..so what happened?………..Let’s blame the fast food places, they shouldn’t be selling Super-Sized products……Yeah, right!!!
Now that people are realizing that child obesity has become an epidemic in this nation, education about healthy eating, exercise and healthy living are everywhere you turn……….those 2 parent working families are now taking the time to plan and prepare meals.
I feel that more parents are taking responsibility for what their children consume and those who don’t are either lazy, don’t care and will sooner or later try to lay the blame at someone else’s feet.
If I got off-track of the issue somewhat I do apologize………I am very passionate when people try to blame others for their own actions………it is the parent’s responsibility, (now that the knowledge and education about the effects of child obesity are more known), to control what goes into their babes mouths.
And remember, if you eat Super-Sized you will become Super-Sized!
WOW! So may thoughts about this but where to start…I watched the same special you are talking about. This girl wanted liposuction but the doctors would not do it because she was unhealthy, there was a problem with her blood. This girl wanted liposuction to loose weight and ye she was sitting at all you can eat buffet chowing down while her mom was at the casino. She was upset her mom was at the casino and not with her. I have a feeling that is probably the norm. Her mom isn’t around and she eats whatever she wants. She eats whatever she wants because she doesn’t have any support, maybe was never taught self coping, never taught to eat right and what that meant.
I childhood obesity child abuse? Without a doubt, YES! Unless there are underlying medical conditions, YES it is child abuse, child neglet, child endagerment. Look up the definition of call 3 of those. It is child abuse. It is the parents responsibilty, their main focus, their JOB to raise there child. To provide structure and a safe environment. Does buying junk food, soda, candy, fried chicken…create a safe environment? No. I get so irked when I am out with my kids and I see a so chubby it doesn’t look like their eyes can open all the way and they are eating a bag of doritos, drinking a coke. Or even worse, a diet coke. C’mon. I think some of today’s parent are so afraid of becoming their parents that they don’t want to parent at all. They want to be a friend. Afraid to set boundaries, afraid to say no!
AHHHH…..I’m on my soapbox and could keep going but I need to stop. Do I think it’s child abuse? Yes! As far as surgeries go…they are CHILDREN! The only surgeries they should be having are medicaly necessary ones. Plain and simple.
I do think that the parents are responsible. Even if there are bad genes in the family a parent should work even harder for that child not to become obese. It’s just the right thing to do because the poor kiddo’s will get picked on and take that with them for life. But it’s hard for me to say it’s really abuse because then you have to pick a weight that makes it abuse. Is 250 lbs abuse and not 249? What’s that magic number for what age? What’s the magic calorie number that says it’s good parenting or bad parenting? Then if you start talking abuse then other things follow. First it’s obesity and then it will be parents who don’t discipline causing some kids to be bullies and that’s abuse because parents didn’t teach them to be kind people. We have to be real careful with what’s abuse and what’s just plain bad parenting. I’m not sure what the answer is because you want someone to step in and say “hey, stop feeding that kid so much!” but some parents are in denial. I’ve seen it on shows on tv where the parent knows there is a problem and still feeds the family horrible food. It’s too bad that some turn a blind eye. So many of those shows show parents that say they love their children and would do anything for them but they won’t put the whole family on a real diet. Abuse? Not sure. Bad parenting? Yeah, I would say that. Am I personally a perfect parent? No. But, if my child was overweight, I believe I would do what I could to get her healthy. It’s the right thing to do.
One of my biggest fear for with raising my children is that they will have a weight problem. And yes, baring some medical problem, I do think the blame should fall on me. Part of my job as a parent is to provide a healthy diet and an active life. The difficulty of being overweight and having young children is finding that balance between my weightloss efforts and a healthy self image. So far, I think it’s going okay. My DD just turned 5 and wants to exercise every day “to grow big and strong.” She also wants to eat healthy foods for the same reason. She knows that dounuts, candy and pastries are not every day fare, but not prohibited either. I got a shirt the other day that was far too small and her comment to me was, “Are you going to exercise more so you can shrink and be healthy?”
As far as letting a child become obese being abuse, not quite sure. If a child is forced to clean their plates and given massive amounts of food, perhaps. Allowing a child to just eat whatever they want, not providing healthy options, that’s poor parenting. I remember a case a couple of years ago where the Mom swore up and down that the child was on a diet. When he was placed in a foster home and ate the diet she said he was eating, he dropped weight very quickly. She was on tv because she was trying to get custody of her newborn. The state had taken custody as soon as she’d delivered because of her older child. The state did consider it abuse. I don’t know if they were right or wrong.
I am sooo stoked with every one insights…
I guess, for me, the thought of it turns to abuse perhaps when the child is admitted to the hospital or visits a physician to be treated medically for problems associated with obesity?
If my child goes to the ER with a broken arm, I am questioned…
So, if my 300 pound son goes for shortness of breath, high blood pressure, etc, should my parenting be questioned???
Ava1bb made the following comment:
“I think some of today’s parent are so afraid of becoming their parents that they don’t want to parent at all. They want to be a friend. Afraid to set boundaries, afraid to say no!”
Girl, you have no idea how much this makes my blood boil. Parents simply don’t want to see that by setting boundaries, they are saving their children from societal problems AND heartache down the line.
I couldn’t agree more with your comment.
As far as the rest of the debate or the meat of it, if you may, seems like most of us agree—it is the parents responsibility. Child abuse? Again, it would depend on the psychosis of the individual family. WL surgery at ANY age shouldn’t be taken lighty…and it should not be performed on a child unless their life is at stake. And that Dawnie, is my 2 cents!
It’s very sad to see children obese, particularly morbidly obese, and yes the parents should have changed their child’s eating habits and lifestyle before it got to that stage.
As a parent, dealing with an overweight child is a skill in itself so as not to set them up for a lifetime of fixation over their weight or food. If a child is chubby, or overweight, I wouldn’t make a big deal of it to the child. I would not single them out or make them feel different. I would ensure there were healthy choices in the house but for the whole family. I wouldn’t buy anything that I knew would be bad for them in any quantity. However, exercise plays just as big a part as food. Parents lead by example, and many overweight children have overweight parents.
As far as school goes, I didn’t know that the school lunch break was on 30 minutes. How do they get time for sport or games after eating?
Also, as parents we can change what children eat in the school cafeteria. they are our children and we can unite to ensure they are are given a better balanced diet and remove some of the things we know are bad for them. Here (the UK) the coke machines, etc have been removed from nearly all the schools and there has been a big groundswell to change the school meals. Cooking and gardening is back on the curriculum for all junior schools. It’s back to basics in many ways.
Our school dinners were terrible - precooked, high fat, high calorie meals and there was huge campaign to change that. Here’s more on how it succeeded if you are interested. There’s probably a proper website for it somewhere, but this was the first thing that came up on google.
http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/J/jamies_school_dinners/
Hey guys…man, you have brought up some great points..My only comment is that there is a disease out there..cant remember how to spell it for the life of me…but my nephew has it…right now, he is in high school…and he was diagnosed a small child…with this disease…they told his mom…he will literally eat himself to death. He never feels full..no matter how much he eats.
As a young child..his mother had to put locks on the cabinets/ice box to stop him from getting his own food and binging non-stop.
As a teen now, he probably weighs 300-400 range..guessing towards midrange based on looks.
He has been on meds for most of his life…trying or the other…and some of these have had really bad side affects.
It breaks my heart…this child has never had a chance…can you imagine being physically hungry every day..all day?? Unless a miracle happens…this boy will continue to gain weight and I wonder what will happen if he moves out of his home (heslike 16 or 17 now) and his mom is no longer around to monitor him…he goes other places now..of course…sad situation. Note..none of her other children have this condition and the mother herself is pretty small..probably a size 6 or so..not sure.
I just think with all the advancements in medicine..there would be something out there to help….all these years and no real help in that department.
Anyway, I read about ya’ll wanting to debate this…while I dont have much to say that hasnt been said already..thought I would share this.
Love Debbie
Really great discussions here everyone…I have enjoyed all the feedback…
Here is one final thought for me…And this goes with children or adults really…
Obesity is now overtaking smoking as the number one health issue causing an increase in medical/insurance cost..
Now, most parents I know would not let their child of say 10 or 11 sit down and smoke a cigarette, but for some reason, its often okay to watch that kid play video games all day eating junk food and drinking pop…
If we, as a nation, do not do something soon, our children are not going to live into adult hood…
Childhood obesity is an epidemic…Hell, OBESITY is an epidemic…
Thanks again everyone!!!!
Dude, thats nuts!!. I guess it should boil down to teh parents allowing this to happen. I would make the time to exercise with my daughter if she started down that road. I know that with single parents, time is always an issue but I would definately do something about that. As far as abuse, probably not, neglect would be more fitting. If I knew that my child had a debilitating disease and didn’t lift a finger to mitigate the issue, thats neglect. this is a really interesting issue to bring up. I would be brought up on charges if I supplied cigarettes to my kids, as the poster of this bolg also commented on my blog, obesity has overtaken smoking in term of health risk and death etc… whats the difference??
SUPER DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOOD THOUGHT SIS!
Dee, You have hit the nail on the head my dear. Accountability and responsibility are key factors as well as the change in our society to have 2 parent working families. I think that some fast food chains have begun looking at a few healthier options but they need to keep working toward healthier menus. I noticed in the news today that Burger King is changing to trans fat free oil. It’s a step in the right direction but they need to do more. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_bi_ge/burger_king_trans_fat
Our family was one of those eat out 4 times a week families when I was working. Now that I’m home we eat out maybe once a week… sometimes none at all. Not only am I able to prepare healthy meals, it’s saving a lot of money. Feeding a family of 5 when your going out to eat is expensive.
Keep up the great discussion not only on here but out in your communities. Knowledge is power and we may be able make changes in our hometowns as well as in our homes!
